Scott Armstrong's 1998 Data Suggest White Seed Color is Recessive to Tan

Scott Armstrong provided seed which gave the first indication of the inheritance of seed color. The lines may also be useful in study of skin color.

301 Armstrong 1998 <= selfed = 750 Mombert (white seeds)

The characteristics of the 301 were: very round, and very very very orange, had ribs, but not really large or especially deep. It had smooth skin, (no cantelouping). If i remember correctly, it was pretty tall for it's size, 28" or so from the ground. TAn seeds

680+ Armstrong 1998 <= selfed = 715 Dill [f = ] (white seeds)

The characteristics of the 680+ were high (34.5"), and round, a light almost peach color, very deep, wide ribs, and cantelouped skin.. Tan seeds.

Dr. Eddleman, Hi. I read your post this morning about selfed AG seeds. I have some seeds that I selfed in 1998, my 301# pumpkin and my 680+ (uow) pumpkin. Both were self pollinated, which isn't such a big deal, BUT, here's what i found to be interesting: My 301 was the product of the 750 mombert. The 750 mombert's parents were : 567.5 mombert (female), and the 804 Zehr (male). My 680+ was the product of the 715 Dill. The parents were also 567.5 mombert (f) and the 804 Zehr (m). Same cross, two different growers. Both seeds (715 and 750) were white. There offspring (301 and 680+) had brown seeds.Anxiously awating your reply, Scott

Dr. Eddleman,

As far as skin color goes, that's going to be a tough one. I've seen alot of variation at contests. Also, there are some that have cantelouped skin and non cantelouped skin. I've seen beige ones, really orange shiney ones, light orange dull ones, and so on and so forth. ARe there different genes, or loci, relating to skin texture as well as color? Or are they one in the same? How is this related to ribs on a pumpkin?

My 301 was pretty smooth, but the 680+ had very deep wide ribs. I've seen some pumpkins that had some green, or even gray in them. I've also seen some white patches mixed in with green and orange. I know that somewhere in the line giant squash are sometimes entered into the mix. Did you ever call Howard Dill? He might really be able to help out as far as the crossing aspect goes. he knows what's in the mix so to speak. It is true that the amount of seeds is generally the same when it's small to when it's large, But, the color can vary dramatically. Both of my pumpkins started out a pale yellow, one turned peach, the other turned bright orange. They both started out smooth, one developed ribs, the other, barely. I can send pictures of when it was young, and then when it was mature.

My big one didn't start to turn color until pretty late in the season, the 301 turned orange early. Some people believe that when the fruit turns orange, it stops growing shortly. Some people also believe that the more sun light a fruit gets the more orange it ends up. My 680+ had a shade structure over it, my 301 did not.

Scott

: Re: 301 & 680 Arnstrong 1998 Date: 9 Apr 99 10:43:02 -0500 From: Scott_Armstrong@LNOTES5.bankofny.com To: Indbio

Dr. Eddleman, Thanks for getting back to me. I find your research quite fascinating, and in fact months ago i brought some discussion like this to the group. Of course it wasn't in quite the depth that has been discussed lately. I'm more the inquisitive type. I like to ask "why". That is why i originally wrote to you. In any event. I can send you 2 of my 680 seeds for your research, i don't have many of those seeds due to the fact that a rat ate its way into my pumpkin and ate almost all of them. My 301 i can send you 10, i have plenty of those left. The vines of the 2 plants never crossed. Actually, here is some info you might be interested in. My 301 was grown in an 8 X 8 plot. Most growers use 1000 sq ft per plant though. So, you could grow many plants in a small area, lots of pruning is needed though. Also, you can grow the vines up a trellis, or a fence. I did this by accident, and ended up with my vines growing 20' up a tree. That will give you more plant also. I am especially interested on your thoughts about my 2 pumpkins. As you know, they're from the same cross, just 2 different growers, yet looked completely different. Someone on the list told me that there are 2 genes? i guess one dominant for orange smooth skin, and one dominant for cantleouped light skin. By the way, you were right on with the cantelouped question. The skin gets all mottled, like a canteloupe.. I'm not sure if the info i have is correct about the genes though. But i figured this would be a good place to start. You asked me if i had any thoughts on how my seeds will benefit your research, okay, here goes. If there are only 2 possible outcomes for this particular cross (567.5 X 804 Zehr), i just happened to have grown both, purely by accident mind you. Both pumpkins were selfed, which hopefully means that i isolated those genes further, which hopefully could shorten the time it would take to draw some conclusions about the genetics of these plants. I could be way off here, because lets face it, I'm not a scientist. But, from the moment i found out they were from the same cross, i was always fascinated how the 2 pumpkins could look so completely different. I thought of it in respect to my brother and myself. We are essentially the same cross of both of our parents. We don't look identical (not twins either), but we do look similar. These 2 pumpkins are essentially sisters, (sort of), the only thing they have in common is that they're pumpkins. Also, you might find this interesting, the 301 plant had many small (by AG standard's anyway) leaves, the stems were also quite tall. The 680 plant had much larger leaves, and obviously less of them, and had shorter stems. I dont' know what that means either actually. Just traits about each one that i thought might be helpful to you. I hope that you can find room to plant either one, or both. I'm pretty curious about the out comes. Would you self them again, or cross them? If you crossed them, would that be considered sibbing? since they are of the same cross, but from 2 different pumpkins? I wonder what color the seeds would be? Howard dill once told me that every other year, the seeds are white; his number is (902) 798-2728. They're in Nova Scotia. He did "create" the breed.

It takes between 120 and 150 days to grow one of these plants to get a mature pumpkin. I usually start my seeds on may 1st. This year that will give me 154 days to October 2nd, my weighoff. Also, when your pumpkins get to about the size of a basketball, you need to erect some type of a shade structure to protect the skin from the from the sun. It's going to blow your mind when you see how fast these pumpkins put on weight. my 680 grew 24" in total over the top measurements in one day!! That's an inch an hour!

Scott